Welcome to The High Level People podcast with your host, PJ Crescenzo. This is The show where every week we go inside The minds of modern market leaders. These are world class entrepreneurs, thought leaders, and ministry leaders who are making a generational impact on The world today. The question is, if you're going to compete, why not compete at The highest level possible? And that's what this show is designed for, to give you a playbook for your life so that you can continue to climb levels week after week. This is The High Level People podcast and welcome to today's episode. Welcome to The Pillars of Purpose podcast. Today, I genuinely have two of my favorite people on planet earth, Tim and Rebecca Lindsay. They are authors, pastors, coaches, mentors, just amazing human beings. And I hope that every single person that scrolls past this gets The opportunity to learn more about Tim and Rebecca, and can learn from Their wisdom and everything They've done to impact my life, Ellen's life, The Crescenzo family. So Tim Let's go. All right. So The only way I know how to operate is 100 miles an hour, as you may already know. So we're just going to go rapid fire. So I'll tee up questions for both of you, and Then I'll tee up questions individually to speak to just some different topics. So one concept that you shared, and I don't know if it was through Unstoppable Duos or it was through premarital counseling, but was The concept of Kairos and Kronos moments. So can you just share what is a Kairos moment? What is a Kronos moment? And Then also, how does somebody practically apply Yeah. Well, what an honor it is to be on your podcast. I'm so excited. I'm so excited to see all The development that's happened over The weeks and months and years of you and Ellen and your business and The team that you're building, The family that you're building. It's just awesome. You were always somebody who was out There to go for more. but at The same time in a healthy way. And like all of us, it wasn't always healthy, but you knew when it got out I would say in a hungry way. You were always curious. You were always asking questions. It's like, I want to go fast. I want to learn doing that. Yeah, it was a real pleasure just being with you and The time that you were here in Charleston. Kairos and Kronos, so There's like in Mark chapter 1 and verse 15 in The Bible, Jesus says, The time has come. The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe. The good news. So what he's saying at The beginning, The time has now come. This is The opening statement. It's like your mission statement, you know, when you're The CEO and you get your team togeTher and you're like, okay, guys, this is what we are about. And that's what Jesus is saying to his onlookers, to his disciples in that moment. This is what I am about. The time has come. So The time is, a special moment in time. And in Greek, There's different variations of The word time. One is chronos, which is all about chronologically, chronology, and just The time, The minutes, The hours, The days, The weeks. And The oTher one is Kairos. And we just have one word for time, which is time. And in The Greek, They have multiple words. And Kairos is a special event in time. It's like at a funeral, when you go to a wedding, when you're at a party, you don't say, I had a difficult or a great two hours and 17 minutes and 33 seconds. You say, it was a great time. We celebrated well, we heard something, you know, we described that time as a special moment in time. And usually, those Kairos moments are moments of breakthrough. And you can't enter into every single Kairos moment that you experience. But The goal in life is to, when you enter, when you experience a Kairos moment, that you stay still for a second. and that you reflect and that you say, why? Why is this happening? And what kind of benefit does this moment have for me? So when I'm at, for instance, for me as a pastor, when I'm in Sunday and I'm in church and I hear The message and I hear a key word, or I'm in a conversation and I hear a key word, or I'm in a business seminar lunch, and in some kind of conversation, you hear an hour of content, but one piece of that content will stick out. One line of that song will stick out. One meeting, one person might stick out. And that's a great moment to say, okay, two questions. And The two questions are, what is God saying to me through this moment? you know, and Then what am I gonna do about it? What am I gonna do about it? And if you could seize The Kairos moment, and if you could see and answer those two questions, I'm telling you, that's 90% of life. It's 90% of transformational living, Should my goal be to have more Kairos moments? Is that a filter that I should be applying where I want to experience more Kairos moments, or are those just organic moments that I wouldn't say you need more Kairos moments, but you need to learn that you have Kairos moments already. So we tend to just beat by and not reflect. So even if you reflect in The evening and ask yourself what stood out to me, that's probably your Kairos moment. And Then what are you going to do with that now? So very often we just reflect and we put it down in The pocket or said, oh, this is what happened. And we're not doing a learning moment with that. And that's why. we miss out. So it's not aware of like how many people were around Jesus back Then and They missed so many Kairos moments. And so I would say even if we learn reflecting and living with Kairos moments, your life actually even speeds up because you come into different time zones because They're filled with God's presence and whatever he wants to do with you and you're in it, you're intentional. And so it's not more, how can I have more? So like, very often, Tyrus moments are connected with your emotions. So like your wedding day, you have moments of your wedding day or when you two Kids were born, you have moments. So if you say, I want to have more, so does it mean you have more kids? You've got to get married, you know? But it's like, what can I learn out of it? Exactly. And There's different personalities. Personalities like yourself, PJ, like myself, we will see Kairos moments every 10 minutes. We'll be like, light bulb moment, Eureka, let's go. But Then There's people that shy away from those moments. In our coaching, we've had both. We'll have people that say, I never have a Kairos moment. And Then we'll have people who say, I have a Kairos moment every five minutes. So for those of us who have lots of those Kairos moments, hey, still quieten down. You don't need to enter into every Kairos moment. But for those of those who usually shy away from those moments, let's take time, like you said, at The end of The day, and let's think through what could Okay, so in The spirit of building great marriages, I'm gonna ask you two to slide togeTher by like one inch. Can you just slide your chairs like one inch togeTher? Amazing, all right, There we go. All right, so Kairos Curtis, I have one more question, Then we'll go into marriage. How does The story of The gospel and The Christian faith allow somebody to not blow by The Kairos moments? Like how does that way of life and how should it allow us to take those moments to reflect and capture The Kairos moments, if that makes sense. Because I think we're in a world where, you had a great point, what are you going to do, have more kids? Like we're always seeking The thing and we're not even really aware of what The thing's supposed to mean. So how does The story of Christ and our faith help set The context to live within Yeah, so like you said, from The moment you get up in The morning to The moment you put your head on The pillow at night, you are being distracted and people want your attention. Your attention is The most valuable thing that you can give. And so wheTher it's social media, wheTher it's The news cycle, wheTher it's your employees or wheTher it's your employer, They all want your attention. So let's think about that. Think about attention being The most valuable thing that you can offer. One of The most valuable things you can offer. And one of The most important things to experience transformation. So in today's world, where everything is being so destructive, you have to be intentional about entering in moments of reflection. And I think that, you know, when I think about our faith, when I think about how we've grown, just The fact that every morning we get up and read The Bible, that we pray, pray togeTher, that we just take a moment to ask those two questions. God, what are you saying to me? What are we going to do about it? And having that as a lifestyle creates a foundation so that when oTher moments come during The day, I can stand still and I can be more reflective. And The culture in America, we both come from, I'm from half Irish, half Swiss. And so we have both Irish and Swiss cultures. We've grown up around those cultures. They are less on The go. In America, we are on The go. And so as Americans, we have to be even more intentional than oTher cultures in The world about stopping and asking and thinking. And our faith, our And it's also when you understand who God is and what The gospel truly is for you, Then having a Kairos moment and reflecting on Kairos moments, it's not about judging. And very often, like The tendency of seeing too many Kairos moments could be an excuse or wanting to avoid seeing Kairos moments also could be an excuse of When you grasp The Kairos moment, meaning this is God saying to me, this happened to me, even if you don't believe in Jesus, like table of truth, that's sometimes how we call it as well, is what am I going to do with that? Like I just hurt my wife or just made a bad decision in my business or hired The wrong person. That's a fact. If I go for anoTher Kairos right away, I'm not dealing with that problem. Or if I don't want to have Kairos moments, like it's I don't want to have The ownership because normally if you grasp God is in it, he's for me, he has really truly good plans for me, I can own it, I can work at it, I can make some changes, I can develop new disciplines and habits and stuff. And so The advantage in The now world is we We sit on The throne. I will be right with everything that I say. And so, even looking at God, or He could be a good God, is more like He's fulfilled in my life. And so, I don't want to look at tyros moments, because Then I maybe have to look at my own life and my own responsibilities. And Yeah. There's a silver lining like The oTher point is what we've experienced in our own lives and just coaching so many oTher people is that usually There is a silver lining in The transformation that you're experiencing. So for me, I'm a go-getter and I'm always going to have a little weakness of, for instance, caring for people, caring for my wife, caring for my family, caring for my leaders. I want to get The new thing. I want to get The most exciting thing. I want to move on. I want to, you know, claim more land or and all of that kind of stuff. So I'll have a silver lining, it will always be There that my one of my vices is care for oThers. And so usually I can write You can relate and usually Kairos moments Then like I'll have maybe 60-70% of my Kairos moments will start to evolve around that silver lining and it'll come in different forms. This week or this month it's come in The form of my word for The year which is care and it really you know, a word that I really believe God wants to help me not just care about opportunities for The future, but care about everything that He's already entrusted us with. We're sitting in our new house, caring for this new house, caring for what's going on in The neighborhood, and not just things that I think that I should care about, but things So I wanted to take away something that Rebecca said, and I don't even know if she said this exactly, but I'm extrapolating this from what she said, which is, it may actually be an advantage to not be The one sitting on The throne, because when you are operating like you're The one sitting on The throne and everything rolls through you, it's actually an advantage to know There's somebody else sitting on The throne that has good plans for you. And I think that is, maybe a tough paradox for somebody that's not a believer to realize that by not being in control, it's actually an advantage. Whereas if we would think by being in Absolutely. I mean, if we take, I failed, I made a mistake, I made a kind of wrong person, not being on The throne is, thank you, Jesus, if you would help me coming up with a solution. If I gained, so like having a child, If I would be on The throne, The pressure of doing everything right, of raising our firstborn The right way would be like healing. Even experiencing something so positive or saying yes to you on your marriage day, knowing I'm not on The throne, I get to celebrate with The one who has The best plans for me and he's ready for whatever else comes. He will equip me for what is to come. So eiTher way, if you're on a winning side or you feel you're on a losing side, it's Absolutely. Jesus says, I think it's John 17, he says, it is to your advantage, The New King James version of this verse is, it is to your advantage that The Holy Spirit comes. Wow. That is exactly, just exactly what you said. That's what it's all about. That when it's about me, when it's about everything that I can do as a person, Then it's to my disadvantage because I won't release control. I won't experience that peace. I won't experience that joy. I'll always feel The pressure. But Jesus knew that and says, I'm going to give you The Holy Spirit. He is The center. He's going to carry The burden and you can always fall How has your understanding of The Trinity developed over time? So day one, wheTher you're a teenager and I don't know when The journey started, whatever country you're in, you get exposed to Christianity and now you're sitting here in your beautiful new house and we're talking about The Trinity 30, 40 years later, 20 years later, because you guys just turned 21. How For me, personally, so much. So thinking of God, The FaTher, The Son, and The Holy Spirit, I always joke, I grew up, I embraced God, The Son, Jesus, and Then The Holy Scripture. There wasn't really a spirit around. And so God, for me, was more like respect, obedience, maybe fearful. And Jesus was The one that came and wanted a relationship. And especially in The last couple of years was almost, I wasn't even fair towards The Holy Spirit, The one who came up with The whole plan. And he said to us to set an example so that we can live by, but we're actually living on a daily basis with The Holy Spirit. You know, he is The one who helps me understanding. And so with that also meaning his power, his authority lives in me, The fullness lives in me. So when I say I'm lacking off, it's not too much. I don't need more faith. My faith is different than Jesus' faith. His spirit is The same. So I don't need more of Jesus, but I have to learn how can I release more of what he puts in me. The awareness again, like similar to Kairos, like how belittling am I with his, with everything, The authority, The power that I have within. And so it is how can I learn on a daily basis and grow towards living in The fullness that is already accessible to me. And so from that perspective, I would say we both grew Yeah. I think that was one of The biggest, I think you're right. I think one of The biggest takeaways was growing up in Christian families. We had wonderful families, we had wonderful parents, we had a wonderful upbringing. But The generation that went before us had a tendency to say, you know, you have to do this to get that. So if you read your Bible, Then you'll experience more. If you pray more, Then you'll experience more. And There's truth to it, of course, as you do that. What we were released into in The later part of our journey togeTher was into an amazing relationship with our FaTher in heaven, knowing that we have everything that we need. We lack nothing. We don't lack finances. Why don't we lack finances? Because Jesus has all The finances in The world. I don't lack love. Why? Because Jesus has all The love in The world. I have Jesus. I don't lack anything. But The actual challenge isn't... what I have or don't have, but realising first, The first challenge to overcome is realising I do have everything. And, you know, accepting that, acknowledging that and Do I really believe it? And Then secondly, like you said, Rebecca, I think that was so good, releasing it, releasing it into everyday life. Okay, what does that now mean for my finance? What does that now mean for this frustrating experience that I'm having with my spouse, with my child, with my neighbor, with my whatever? Okay, I already have it. And it's even, if you really believe, just imagine you believe. and it can work. What would you do I think joy. I mean, I think The opportunity to experience a life of joy gets amplified and of service because you're no longer focused on what am I missing or what don't I have? You can now step into a place of I have enough to Then also take care of oThers. It's like, you can't take care of your spouse if you don't take care of yourself. But when you know that you're already taken care of spiritually, it's what I'm hearing as you guys talk, Then I'm actually in a position where I can help oThers because I know I already have what I Your pursuit is different, your posture is different, your boldness is different. It's like you have a million dollars on your account, but you're not using Actually, not only are you not using it, you're getting credit cards and not using The That's so good. Yeah, you're not using it. You're not putting The dilemma I'm facing in this moment is I have so many questions I want to ask you, but we're having such a good organic conversation that I'm stuck between The pendulum. So I'm going to shift just because There's things that I don't want to not ask. in The episode, but I love talking to you guys so much. I could literally just have a week of just talking to you and record The whole thing. Of course. All right. So what are The different requirements from stewarding a marriage and being partners as a married couple to Then raising children? What's The shift in mindset that's required between two partners as For me, one of The thing is we are a team. That brought a big change. We are a team. And team doesn't mean everybody plays The same role. We do have different responsibilities. We have different roles and different ways of influence and impact our child. While it is so key that I individually grow, that I individually grow my relationship towards God and stay as strong as an unstoppable possible myself, It is very key that togeTher we have The perspective, we're in it togeTher and we're a team in that. And so it can require you have to deal in now or it can require I release you now, now Communication, yeah. One mentor told me, he said, Tim, There's no big difference when you go in your relationship from boy and girlfriend to fiancé. There's a little bit of difference or a certain amount of difference when you go from fiance to marriage. But everything changes when you go from yourself, your marriage, to having children. It changes everything. Because up until now, your value system is more or less something that you've talked about and don't have to live out to a full extent. And so when you get children, I want my values instilled in The child and my spouse wants her values instilled in The child. So all of a sudden we find ourselves talking about, fighting about, you know, you know, making jokes about whatever values that It's like The first time you're actually taking out a paintbrush. had an idea of what you wanted The walls to look like. But it's not until you actually build The new house and you're like, are we going with cream? Are we going with Yes. But The great thing about it is, and that same mentor told me, he said, you're building a new house. Never forget, you're building a new house. Your wife comes from a house. You come from a house, meaning Your wife comes from a certain family culture and you come from a certain family culture. It's not about your or me visiting into his house for a while, and Yeah, we're not doing this. No, we are called to multiply. We've been called to be a blessing. We've been called to multiply. And it's The blessing of this new multiplication, this new house. And so you've got to talk about it. We've got to find out, okay, what kind of a house are we building? What kind of values are at The foundation? What are you bringing in from your side? What am I bringing in from my side? What does this look like? Can I let go of this? Can I can I build on that? And that's always You know, it's not just what a gift that we have a an example of what The faTher's house is, because as you're giving that actual analogy, if There was no blueprint to reference, if There's no Home Depot to go by and pick up materials, Yes. I mean, what a missed opportunity for everybody trying to reconstruct The wheel and build houses and They look like broken teepees when you have a beautiful blueprint just awaiting us to study it And one of The questions we have and a lot we ask is, you know, what do you want and Then what do you really want? And very often we found is in a marriage, in The beginning, it's what you want. Okay, you can go for that. You find a compromise and everybody's independent. But you know, when a child shows up, you will really learn dying to yourself. I mean, you want to sleep so, so badly, but no, this child I'm coming off of a 2 a.m. and a 4 a.m. wake up last night with two So you have no choice. You learn dying to yourself, kind of. And Then this creates a room where you have to talk, what is it that we really want in that moment? It's not just, I want sleep. Hey, we need a rhythm or we need a system of this night I take over, this night you take over, or whatever that could be. But it creates new levels of conversation that need to happen because you are building this new house. It doesn't matter when you asked in my day, in my house, this is what happened. And Then he says, but this is what happened. Yep, that's a new us now. None of those houses are here right now. How often do you find, man, I have so many things I want to ask you guys. How often do you find that somebody doesn't want to surrender Their house? I feel like sometimes when somebody comes from a really strong culture, They have a strong family legacy, it's like, this is The only house that can ever be built. What advice or encouragement would you give to somebody as They're stepping into hopefully a biblical covenant or a biblical marriage about maybe surrendering some Yeah, I think it's a great question. And I think you have to be high on communication and talk about it because different houses, different impact. So you'll have one, The wife comes from a difficult home and has had a difficult upbringing and is marrying into somebody who has a more healthy upbringing. Well, that wife wants to let go, or maybe not, needs to maybe let go of The house, or 90% of her house, or 80% of that, and be born into this new house. And all of a sudden, this oTher house becomes her home, her house. And so every Everyone's different. You can't say, oh, you have to give up this. And so it's not a contract. You give up this, I give up that. It's a covenant that you're going in with each oTher. And that covenant isn't 50-50. It's not, whatever we're talking about, whatever we're talking about, values, money, it's not a 50-50 thing. It's not a 50-50 deal. It's a matter of communicating and finding out, okay, God, back to The two questions. What are you saying? What are you saying to us about our house, about our relationship, about our home, our values, and what are we going to do about it? And Then The conversation turns around, right? That's an amazing conversation because Then it's not about you did this and you have that and I did this, you know, I have that. It's about, okay, who are we and what is The house that we're building? And if we take The example, like The woman had maybe The bad upbringing and it even makes sense that she gets born into The oTher one, but it doesn't mean she moves in The oTher house. Because even There is, that's why even coming back to The pirates again, I know that maybe your past was challenging, mine was good, but we're not processing or living by what was God saying to our parents or to his parents back Then. What is he saying to us now? Yes, thankfully I had a better upbringing, but I'm really convinced that was such a good thing I experienced in The past. I really want my children to experience that as well. Okay, what is God saying to you about this now? It's not I'm not leaving my parents tires or my childhood. I was moments I'm living my baby. I was moments and The promises I gave to him on The wedding day when you got married So You have a couple of points that I think tie togeTher for really a beautiful blueprint, maybe Unstoppable Duo's part two. This could be a nice little visual in your next book. Of one, you have a model to follow. And when you realize that you're not on The throne, it's actually a gift to know that you can look at anoTher model, an example of how you ought to live. And Then I liked, Tim, what you said too about it's not a 50-50, because one of The, north stars of this podcast and what I've grown into my career is when I started my career, everything was about balance. And I was like quantitatively trying to figure out how do I get 40 hours at home and 40 hours at work? And I was always frustrated because There actually wasn't enough time to balance it all out, especially when kids came in. But Then I learned this idea of integration and rhythm and seasons, which goes back to biblical truths. And this is a good opportunity to shout you out for a moment I was sharing before we recorded, which was, As I think about The journey that got me comfortable to have this podcast and speak to These things, There was a moment where I was so burnt out professionally. I went into a worship night at Seacoast and Tim, like an angel from The crowd, I don't even know where he came from, he just drifted over. And next thing I know, he's laying hands on me and he's praying on me. And Then he drifts away again. It was like, I don't even know if he was really There. Maybe it was The spirit of Tim or it was just Tim. But he comes in, he prays with me, he goes away. And I was thinking about that moment. This was probably, I don't know, four or five years ago. I was thinking about this last week and just how different my spirit was at that time. I was so depleted and how much more filled I've been as I've shifted from, I need to balance everything to There's rhythms and There's integration. So with that said, Juan, I just want to thank you for that moment. And I want to thank you for The positive influence both of you have had on our marriage and our life. What do you think leads to burnout? What do you think leads to maybe just a lack of The high communication that's required to build The house togeTher? As you're coaching married couples and you're speaking to people in different seasons of life, what do you think leads to that? And what advice would you give oTher than getting a floating spirit of Tim to pray on you at a worship night? What encouragement would you give for somebody to kind of break through that season and experience So one of The big things for us, I don't stop it but we do, you create your why statement. Like one of you highlight, I mean, it's great that you're born and it's great when you find out why are you born? What for are you? One of The things we have, we do with people is uncovering your why, and this is part of how you respond. Why do you get frustrated in situation? Why you get excited for situation? And Then when you know your why, you know your what, you know how you're going to do that, which means you know where you're going to say yes from, where you're going to say no to. I don't really believe in a balanced life. That's not realistic. Coming back to raising kids. These are seasons. I mean, it's a season which may be more intense. The kids can't speak yet. We just have to respond. And Then There will be a season They're going to be out of The house. And what am I going to do with all The time? But in every season, I have to learn setting boundaries, saying yes to The important things and no. And very often it also depends of like, I'm not that much, my person, I don't really need Tim's attention The full day and Then my tank is full, but I need affirmation from him. It could be just The way he looks at me or The way he says something. And so Then my tank can be full again. And so it depends finding out what you need in that season from me to be filled. And so it's setting those boundaries because I know what is important. And that's The back end, like what is God saying to me? How is this aligned with how he wired me? What do I need in that? Knowing it from each oTher. And this can help you set up being protected from Yeah, I always had difficulty with this whole sort of life balance conversation because I never felt like we had any kind of balance because I'm a more sort of pioneer type of guy. So as soon as we have a little bit of a balance, it goes off balance. And if off balance is The enemy, Then I'm always living in The enemy's camp, I think. And I just couldn't deal with it. I can't deal with that. And so, I think a lot of The time, you see people, They lead a hundred companies. You have a friend who has multiple companies here at Seacoast. No problem. He's chill. He's relaxed. He's like, let's go. Every time I have a conversation with him, he's like, okay, what can I pray for you? He's thinking about me. And I'm like, bro, you're amazing. And The person, my boss, Joel Delph here at Seacoast really helped me with this as well. He said to me, you're a five-talent person. So that meaning coming from The biblical story of The five talents, The two talents, and The one talent. And I thought he was just blowing smoke. You're a five talent person. You'll figure it out. You'll do it. But he released something in me. And as I started to think about myself, not as somebody just having this one or two projects that I need to manage and make sure everything happens, but how can I have five, 10, 15, 20 projects What does that mean? It means that I can go back to releasing love, releasing power and authority, also releasing The authority to oThers. And I think The problem that when people have burnout, They assume too much of The burden Themselves. They assume The whole responsibility of Themselves. They think that They are The solution for all The tasks that They own. They think that if I can't do it, nobody will do it. If I'm not in The room, it's not going to happen. So They're so focused on Their own personal contribution that They forget that They have a team of people around Them. They have a family. They have friends. They have a neighborhood. They have people at church. They have people in Their network that can help Them carry different loads and carry different tasks. And pride is a terrible thing. And There's this kind of arrogant pride that is very visible. But Then There's an inverted pride which isn't very visible, which is hidden a lot also in Christian communities. And that is, you know, I am It's almost The stubbornness. It's like The, it's The striving versus The surrender where I'm going to white knuckle my way through this next season because I have The grit to do it. And two, two beautiful things. One is when you know, you're why, you know, you're what, that was a really powerful line from Rebecca. And I love, Tim, what you shared about a five-talent person, two-talent person, and one-talent, because There's not even, and actually, this is a perfect transition, because I wanted to talk to you guys about shame, because one thing that you guys did really well was turn your mess into your message. But There's not even any shame on what type of talent person you are, because There's actually peace in knowing you don't want to try to be a five-talent person if you're one-talent, because it's going to be very painful. At The same time, it's going to be painful if you're a five-talent person operating like a one-talent or two-talent person. So, that's beautiful. All right. So, I want to transition to ask you guys a question. So, you can take whatever angle you want if you want to do a rock, paper, scissors, shoot, married version of deciding. So, There's two roads to go down. One is you guys overcame a lot of adversity with an incredible story. I don't know how much you want to share, but kind of your journey of starting a family was like super inspirational to Ella and I about what you guys overcame. So that's one, but The oTher part of that is you've also spoken a lot of life into us and to oThers about not being ashamed of anything that you've been through and turning your mess into your message. So wheTher you want to share kind of your story of what that looked like, or just how you speak to oThers about stepping into Their shame, that was a powerful part of Unstoppable. Just It goes all back again. Jesus is in it. He's present. And in my pain, in my disappointments, He's present. And so it's not me again, but I feel so quickly I'm a failure in that. And so starting off, we were young, we were part of a church band, feeling like we're both go-getters. And so The world is ours. Nothing is going to stop us. grew up with great parents, like what is going to hinder us? And so we, I never believed, similar like this balanced life, I never believed now is time for work and Then we have kids and Then we have that. I feel if God is calling us something, he will equip us with whatever we need. And so if you plan to now and we have a child now, we will be fine. And so we wanted to be parents early on and it didn't work out. So in total, we lost five children. One time, I almost died giving birth to a daughter, Faye, that only lived half an hour. so much in me was still thriving to prove my worth towards being a woman. It was like, There was nothing Tim could take off my, he I'm sure you thought about it. You're like, let me just try one WheTher that's a good thing or a bad thing. All right. So I want to capture this season because that is so powerful. I mean, even like as I get a little bit older, I'm starting for The first time in my life to have conversations with friends that are trying and maybe not having kids and just like speaking into that's probably The most under discussed trauma that happens in The everyday family is The inability to have children or maybe a miscarriage or a loss. So not to sit on it, but to sit on it, like The delicate balance, like walk me through The pain and The difficulty of that season and how you guys chose each oTher. Because I think 99% of modern day Americans, and maybe it was The international cloth that you guys were just a little grittier. would, after one or two, just throw in The towel and give up. So what was required to go through five miscarriages and still choose each oTher and now be leading unstoppable duos and have children? And you actually had children. So walk me through what was required to get through that and just fire Yeah, it's been a long time, but it's one of The most difficult periods of our relationship. And it taught us so much. And after, so we had one miscarriage, a second miscarriage, and Then we had twins. No, Then we had Faye, who was a premature birth. And our experience with her was The most impactful. because everybody was celebrating her and celebrating this new child and God is going to give back what The enemy stole and all These sort of phrases and nice encouragements. The people meant well, but Then we lost her and Then, you know, The doctor said to me that Rebecca's lost so much blood, he doesn't think she's going to survive The night. And so that was, where were you at that moment? Like you just found out your daughter and you might lose your wife. I mean, where I mean, our daughter died in his arms, so he was holding her and Then he came to, to me. And for me, it was even afterwards. After her, I had twins with 21 weeks. And that was for me hard because The whole process, like even getting pregnant again, I wouldn't say it was like so holy to me. For me, it was proving a point to myself. I can get pregnant. It was like starting a new business. This one failed. I'm going to start anoTher one. I'm going to start anoTher one. And I felt like I only going to find my worth when I have that child. And after The twins, I remember Tim even coming to me and saying, Can you imagine staying married with me and we not having children? And that was for me like, whoa, I almost limited him to my sperm donor, like I need your sperm so I can get my fulfillment. But this question was like, is There more than just what I want in that moment with that child? What if this God is good? What if he still has great plans, even though They might look different, how experienced? in The path and it was a great wake-up call for me, what am I really living for? I think in that phase, even though it was so painful, I did live very much I think The big word is surrender. And you know, when you're young and you're in it and you feel strong and everybody around you is tapping you on The shoulder, clapping you and saying, hey, good job and everything. You feel so strong. You feel like you don't need to surrender. You've got this. And Then you walk into a situation like that and The thing that it I felt like what happened to me and what happened to us is we surrendered our lives to The Lord. After one of The greatest trials. So when I talk to friends today, and I want to get a word of encouragement from you guys of what you'd say to this. I think The most common reason that people drift from The faith or leave The church is because how do good things or how do bad things happen to good people, right? It's like The most common, you know, kind of spiritual conversation. So to be a married couple that experienced that much heartache and loss, but Then I've also seen some of The beautiful fruit after, you know, what would you say to that person who maybe experienced just one hardship and has turned Their back on God, The plans that God has for Them and what's on The oTher side of surrender after Yeah, There's a communication response, but There's also a relational response. So everybody's looking for, what do I say? Is it Theological, what I say? Is it more person-to-person, what I say? What They need is somebody who's just There. who just loves Them, who's just with Them and understanding Them. That message for us. So we had one pastor who came into The hospital, spent an afternoon with us and just cried with us, a whole afternoon, just cried with us. Didn't say anything. I'm telling you, I'll get emotional about it now because it just brings up that feeling of acceptance, of love. God's got this. We think about, oh, how do we communicate The gospel? And so much of The gospel is communicated by just being present, being There, being helpful, being kind. And, you know, in that moment in time, we didn't need any more than that. The last thing we needed is a pastor coming Yeah, coming out with a diagram of like different dimensions of spirituality. It's So three children who are all awesome, because I've seen all of your children after five miscarriages. I mean, come on. If his plans aren't good, Then I don't know The thing is, I have to also say, you know, There are couples that it didn't turn out like, They didn't have a positive result with three children. They are still childless today. And so for me, that's also a come on. Hey, come on, you stay. You remain true to your faTher in heaven. You were committed for The long haul. And now you're living The purpose. One couple that we know, that we helped through a little bit, will remind Them about The spiritual children that God is birthing through Them. And They have now a vision for These spiritual children. They can really almost say like They're our children, They're discipling oTher people. And it's so good. I mean, I have so much respect, especially for this couple and couples like Them, who are able to say, you know, we kept on fighting The fight, and this is how we're living out God's purpose for And I mean, our biggest learning and for people that we get to coach and help is in this time, even though it was so painful, like you say, good things happen, a bad thing happens to good people. so quickly, we think we're that good, and I'm speaking for myself, but I actually was on The throne. So what happens is really The position change again of A big thing was for me surrendering The dream, having children, giving you a yes and saying, hey, we're going to stay married. I'm going to be with my best friend for The rest of my life. I'm not going to have children, but I'm going to be fine because God is for me. I remember The same time we buried The dream of planting in anoTher church. because we just can't get our cable anymore, because we realize The position we are in is, I can't do anything. If he's not giving me my yes for whatever, if this means we're going to have children or not, if this means we're going to plant anoTher church, or we're going to have this or that business, or we're going to live There, whatever. I don't even want to be There if that is not Him. I don't want to be in a position of, look, I'm so holy right now. I'm going to church. I'm reading my Bible. I deserve what I want now. I don't want to be on that position anymore. Like continue submitting and surrendering myself. And with that helping people, is God really on The throne or is it you with all The things that you did so well from So good, it reminds me, I was just telling Okay. All right. Well, this is a gift from me to you, a small token of gratitude, which doesn't compare to The gratitude that I have for you for One of The best biblical narrative quality production series, but anyway, as you're talking about who's on The throne, one of my favorite scenes is as soon as King Saul builds a statue of himself and doesn't honor The Lord, he never won anoTher battle. And it's like this moment that David gets anointed. As soon as he said, I am God that literally you watch in The show, The anointing just flow off of Them because he stopped honoring The Lord. So, all right. So, so three final questions for you guys, and this is so good. So now speak into what it looks like to. not be suffocated by your shame, right? So if it's a married couple, it's a professional, it's anybody that's coming to you guys and you can see that Their voice isn't as loud as it should be because They're battling with this inner shame. What does it look like to break through that and get Yeah. Well, I think it has a lot to do, really, with what Rebecca started out with, your why statement. We've had so many people go through unstoppable growth, and They come through in different ways and different personalities, different experiences. And The people that you're talking to or you're speaking to that are shy, and I think about, I won't mention her name, but Jay JG was exactly what she was like. She's 60 years old. She feels like The world has crushed her. Her marriage is over. Her son is challenging. She's just waiting for retirement. She's like counting down The days. She's like five years to retirement and she goes through Unstoppable and she realizes through just taking time. So this is one thing that you actually said to me as you were going through Unstoppable. You said, you know, it doesn't really matter what The content is as long as you just take time to stop, think and reflect. and be able to Then move on. And that's exactly what happened to her. So when you create your why statement, you start to build this confidence. And I know this is probably The longer answer raTher than The shorter one that you're looking for. Okay, what's The quick fix? But The longer and better fix, and The deeper fix, put it that way, is when somebody creates Their why statement and says, okay, this is God's purpose for my life, and now I'm going to stand in it. I'm going to stand in it with oTher people. I'm going to get into an accountability group. I'm going to get into relationships. I'm going to find people that want to stand in it with me. I'm going to find people that are a little bit furTher on than me. I'm going to find one person, just one person who's a mentor. I'm going to find one mentor. And I'm going to have, once a month, I'm going to have a coffee with that mentor. I'm going to bring my questions. I'm going to bring, I'm going to do what he tells me to do. I'm going to, you know, just fall into this whole process. And Then The courage starts to build and The confidence starts to build. This lady went from a very low paid job in her company got a 78% salary increase with a new position. Then a year later, we get an email from her and she says she wants to write back and share what's going on. She says, thank you so much. I was just on a business retreat with my company. I was chosen out of 5,000 employees. I was chosen for The top 150. They've invited me on this cruise. My salary is now 120% more than what we sold. Over double. Over double. And, and, and, and, and. And all because she took The time to stop, reflect, make a why statement, and And a quick answer to that is when we go back again, if you gave your life to Jesus and He lives in you, this means The source lives in you. If you go out of that and this means, okay, The answer is me. I have to learn handing my money. I have to learn saying yes or no, whatever. But The source All right, so we're already seven minutes over, so I can only ask you one more question. But before I ask The last question, I just want to lift The two of you up and genuinely comment on The quality and The auThenticity of who you are as people. Like billions of people deserve to experience The two of you. Because of how quality you are both of your hearts. I mean, I mean it like I'm getting emotional thinking about everything. You guys are just so auThentic, and it's so like you actually genuinely want to help and you genuinely care. Tim, we exchanged, you came into my life with come on and I came into your life with let's go. So we actually passed a passion baton. Now I'm saying come on and you're saying let's go. But you guys are just such a light and you're just incredible. I just want you to know that anybody that gets to sit in a room with you two to learn about how to become a better human and a better steward and a better follower of Christ Absolutely. So with that said, when it's all said and done and you host your last Unstoppable Duos retreat and I could add 10 oTher things that we've done, but it's all said and done, right? Because if I listed every activity Tim does in a week, I'd be here for anoTher 20 minutes. But when Oh, wow. Honestly, Yes, it goes back to my wife's statement. My wife's statement is, I want to ask questions to reveal truth so people can experience true transformation. For me, I want to be known that my question can be close in relationship to Jesus. And this is always transformation. So she had interest Yeah, that's so good. My why statement ends with, to make passionate disciples of Christ. So, I mean, I'd love it at my funeral if somebody would stood up and say, you know, he helped me become more passionate Yeah. You all say this, both of you are wise, you're living, because Rebecca, you ask phenomenal questions. So premarital with you was incredible. And Tim, I'll also say you're The first person I ever encountered in my Christian walk who was fired up and loved The Lord. You're actually The first person I ever met who I'm like, this guy's fired up and he loves Jesus. So you're both doing a great job honoring your wise statements. We will put some links below to connect with both of you. You're both incredible people. I'm so grateful that I got The opportunity to know both of you and I'm grateful for The time that you took to be on today's episode. Let's go. Thank you so much for tuning in to today's episode of The High Level People podcast. If you've learned anything from today's content, or if it made a positive impact on your life in any way, please feel free to subscribe on your favorite platform. Importantly, if you think There's somebody in your life who would benefit from today's episode, please shoot Them a link. Encourage Them to do The same. Encourage Them to subscribe because every week we're committed to adding value. I look forward to seeing you soon. Hope you guys have a blessed day, blessed